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    Warhammer 40k

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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:42 pm

    The leg armour which is supposed to be pretty smooth except for maybe battle scars was almost fluffy (Like just after you roll paint onto a wall). I was ok with it not being metal any more because of cleaning up the models or for conversions. Yeah the new models look sharper as well. I'm quite concerned that if I order my models off the net which I might well have to since they had hardly any in the shop, is that they'll send me a crapply molded model like the one in the shop. My other concern is that some models have very fine details, like the Dark Eldar, who I have been thinking of collecting as well, I'm very concerned that the swords etc will break with very little force put on them. My old Dark Eldar from 12 years ago had very fragile guns that broke so easy.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:11 am

    I just thought of something, Bjorn isn't a normal Dreadnought, he's an HQ unit so will I not have the option to pick another unit to be attacked if they are within 6" of him?

    I've finished reading the rules now, I'm onto the mythos etc. Some how I seem to have missed how to use grenades, except in a death or glory situation. The rules I've learnt are out of date, though I can't imagine they've changed much, just a few tweakers here and there and additions I'd guess.

    Oh when we were talking about terminators and power shields, can any terminator use a storm shield or must they have a thunder hammer?
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:15 pm

    HQ isn't a unit type. Bjorn is a dreadnought and follows all the rules for walkers.

    Grenades are fairly useless. Frag grenades are 'used' during assault. The rules are there. Krak grenades and melta bombs can only be used in assaults vs vehicles/building.

    Wolf guard can pick any weapon they want. Only one of them may have a heavy gun though. (assault cannon/missile launcher/heavy flamer).
    Thunder hammer and storm shield is a traditional combo. Standard assault terminators come with them by default, and who doesn't want to whack stuff with a hammer? Only drawback is you go last, but you have a 3+ invulnerable to see you through. Same as claws are traditionally in pairs, as it looks bad ass. You get an extra attack and you can reroll hits or wounds.
    You could go with wolf claw and storm shield, power fist and storm shield. Double thunder hammers. The list goes on. Can even go double storm shield, if you like pointless things. Although it does work in one specific situation that will never crop up.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:05 pm

    Well that is pretty cool though I can't think of a decent reason to change the usual combo's.

    I want to have a fairly traditional Long Fang unit but they don't appear to sell Long Fangs any more. I could buy a devestator squad and just use their weapons on normal space wolves but that would cost twice as much!

    I have the same problem with space wolves scouts, there are some cool looking ones in the new white dwarf but goodness knows where you get them.
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:25 pm

    They've used the bits from the grey hunters sprue. And long fangs need those parts. You can buy a Space Wolf parts sprue from the gw website (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440285a&prodId=prod150001a) but it doesn't even have half the parts that the wolf pack box has.
    It's not too bad for scouts. They are light stealth trrops. They will carry the bare minimum, so you can leave the extra ornamentation off them. They do need the older looking heads though, as the space wolf scouts aren't newbie space marines like in other chapters.

    Games Workshop - bleeding you dry since 2000 (probably, when did they become so evil?)
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:10 pm

    Yeah I saw the Space Wolf parts sprue but it has little that I need for example legs. Heads though are easy, the Wolf Guard Terminators have loads of them. It's really frustrating that they show you things that you can't buy.

    Thought about buying bits from other websites like http://www.bitzbox.co.uk but those sites don't exactly look trust worthy. Also getting what I need would hardly be any cheaper than buying another Space Wolves pack, at least if I did I could make a Long Fang for every weapon that you get with the devestator pack and have parts left over for Lone Wolves.

    Lone Wolves by the way sound really useful for some missions, at least ones that use wounds to decide the winner. Actually I'm more likely to use a Lone Wolf in terminator armour over one in power armour, still it's a cheap unit that can use up the remaining army points and can make a big difference to battles sometimes.

    I at some point will get like 2 packs of Fenrisian Wolves, perhaps using one as a squad and the other as bodyguards to HQ units and the like, I don't think they count as the HQ unit being attached to them, I think they are an equipment option for HQ units, I hope thats the case anyway I still want to be able to attach my HQ unit to other squads.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:30 am

    Hmm if I did buy an extra space wolves troops pack that would at least let me make the Scouts look more like cool Space Wolves. I'm not a big fan of having normal looking Space Marine units in my Space Wolves army.

    I need to do something to make spending £20 just to have more legit Long Fangs, they are one of the units I really wanted when I first started trying to make an army. I was going to buy 2 boxes of space wolf troops one to make Grey Hunters and the other to make Wolf Guards, I'll have to hold off on the Wolf Guard for now (I already have Blood Claws as I've said, I might add some of the new younger heads to them though). I wasn't counting them in my army yet anyway, but they were there as an option. You do seem to get a tonne of stuff with the Space Wolves pack so I guess I'll have loads of bits to use for other things later, or more likely do nothing else with.
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:34 pm

    warning bad large photo ahead. Everything I've bothered painting. Various other things are unpainted and not shown, 4 leman russ, hellhound, valkyrie, vulture gunship, psyker battle squad, 30 kasrkin some sentinels and various other odds and ends.

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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:24 am

    Nice man, wish there was a close up on some of the units, but they all look pretty sweet.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:14 pm

    Been watching some battle reports on youtube, pretty interesting, saw Imperial Guard vs Necrons. The Necrons kept dying but most revived. Loads of them taken out each turn I was thinking they were going to get crushed then bam right back to near full strength. Crazy, looks like fun to play as or against.
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:10 pm

    Necrons aren't too bad, yeah they keep coming back. Just have to focus fire, they can't come back if the unit is wiped out entirely. They also fold in close combat, but Guard don't really have that option.

    The entire point of the photo was so you couldn't see the imperfections :p
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:27 pm

    My painting skills don't exist, I'm in no place to pass judgement. I've yet to get the space wolves armour colour right yet.

    My friend went to the Games Workshop today and bought me the codex, I might be going over later to collect it. Can't wait to finally get to read it and work out the points for various army combinations (To save time when I'm at my friends place I'm going to have a list of various point armies or armies for different scenarios).

    Has that drop pod rule changed I've heard that you used to have to place 50% of your drop pods on the first turn.
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:33 pm

    You still have to drop half your drop pods in yoiur first turn (rounding up). It's an awesome rule, especially if going second.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:03 pm

    Can you use drop pods as weapons? I mean as in dropping them on enemies?
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:32 pm

    Nope. The drop pod has sophisticated inertial guidance systems that will land it on terrain safe to do so.
    In game terms it won't land on impassable terrain, it just lands next to it. So your deep strike is out of risk of mishap. Other figures (friendly and enemy) are impassable terrain.
    Fun fact if it didn't have this rule, landing on a grot could well destroy the drop pod and everyone in it :p
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:06 am

    Damn I was kind of hoping I could put one of my Lone Wolves in the drop pods and use them as weapons. Since I guessed you needed a unit in a drop pod to use it and the Lone Wolves are pretty cheap and don't cost wounds if they die.
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:24 am

    Lone Wolves can't take drop pods. They can't take any transport actually. Although you could buy a a land raider for one, he would be in it by himself. A bit of a waste of land raider. Also worth noting, that whilst Lone wolves don't give up a kill point if they die - they are seeking death in battle. If they survive the battle, your opponent gets a kill point for him and they are pretty hard bastards.

    Like all transports, you don't have to start in your drop pod. If you choose to stay out of it, the pod will drop empty as no one else have the chance to use it. Buying empty drop pods for units to don't intend to deep strike is a valid tactic, as you can get more units you want to drop in on turn one. if you take two dreadnoghts in drop pods say, normally one would drop turn one the other would be in reserve. Buy a pod for someone else, long fangs say, and leave it empty. You now get both dreadnoughts turn one right in the middle of the enemy.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:43 pm

    Well I'm going to buy the battleforce set, which as I'm sure you know has a drop pod. I don't really want the scouts that come with the set I've no real use for them.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:41 am

    My friend wants tips on which weapons are best for killing my wolf guard terminators.
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:37 am

    Nothing, tell him they will be his doom!!!

    They will fall to volume to fire. They get a 2+ save, but you will eventually roll 1's. Can use plasma gunsm and heavy weapons. Demolisher cannons are wonderful against normal terminators. They all work well, but you will still get your 3+ invulnerables against everything (the guys with wolf claws will prob die if they see too much heavy weapons). Just have to remember the more dice you make them them roll, the more 1's they have to chance to roll.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:09 pm

    He got his tactics right then, he was going to put lascannons on his walkers to cut through the terminator armour but when I told him about the invulnerable save 3+ if I have storm shields, 5+ without he decided to go with number of shots over power shots.

    I'm trying to work out what to give my non-terminator Wolf Guard, there are so many choices it's nuts. I was just looking at the things they are allowed and storm bolters look like a very good cheap option, it only costs 3 points per model to use them and being able to shoot twice at 24" would be great for reducing the number of shots that can be fired at me from the bulk of his troops. But were the hell am I going to get enough storm bolters? I can get 8 from terminators packs, that is if I get 2 terminator packs and have one use only thunder hammers and storm shields and the other use an assault cannon. Meh maybe at a later date I'll buy another terminator pack to make a few Lone Wolf Terminators (I want them to look different than normal terminators, more battle worn etc) and a Cyclone Terminator to swap the with the assault terminator. do storm bolters count as close range weapons since they are two pistols?

    Space Wolves have pretty crap jump pack and bike squads, at least compared to other space marine chapters. I know thats pretty much the correct thing for space wolves since they don't really like using those things and I don't really intend to use them either. I was thinking of making a wolf guard jet pack unit, but it's so freaking expensive! points wise any way, a wolf guard model is 18 points and to give him a jet pack costs 25 points, a normal Skyclaw model only costs 18 points and you still have to add on the points for the wolf guard to have special weapons, I was thinking of giving them all wolf claws which I think is 2x15 per model. That would make each model cost 73 points a 10 man squad would be 730 points! 5 men would be 365 points, it's just far too expensive, more so since to start with we are just going to have 1,000 point armies.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:44 pm

    You know what, Storm Bolters and Storm Shields would be a pretty nasty combo, every turn that unit could fire 20 shots moving or not at a 24" range and the storm shields would mean that none of them are easy kills for armour piecing weapons. Very useful against Imperial Guard because as you said their squads are so cheap they can be outfitted with loads of powerful weapons. A squad like that would be pretty much perfect for dealing with his infantry, stay out of their 2 shot range and pound them with shots, if they try to get closer move 6" back and keep firing, if they leave cover the whole squad will get wiped out pretty quick. a squad of 10 guys equipped like that would cost 460pts but I think the usefulness of them makes it a worth while cost. if I attached an HQ unit with an effect that suits them it would make them even better, though I'm not sure which would help. I think they would pay for themselves with the ease that they could crush infantry, I wouldn't take many losses with them and they could wipe out squads very fast. I did some tests with basic Grey Hunters vs basic Imperial Guard infantry and the Grey Hunters took them out in an average of 3 turns (With Imperial Guard in heavy cover), so the Wolf Guard could do it in one or two turns (Depending on luck of firing and them failing morale checks) with fewer losses.
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:39 pm

    One thing you are ignoring. Imperial guard have Orders. They can double tap you at 24" range also.
    Up to you, but it's a bad idea, for many reasons.

    As to jump infantry. Skyclaws are blood claws, but 3 points more a model for the honor of a jump pack. They get from a -> b quicker. And you want your blood claws to be at b very much. Although being fast attack they cannot claim objectives (but they can contest).
    Similiar deal with bikers. You can get your blood claws from a->b quicker, and bikes are really quick. But they bring two things standard blood claws and skyclaws can't. They have bolters, which being on bikes they are relentless so can move and fire without penalty. They can also get a heavy weapon, which you usually want to be a multi melta.
    Both units are slightly weaker than the other chapters options at shooting, but you are so much better when you charge into combat which is where space wolves want to be.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:32 pm

    Yeah don't really know anything about imperial guards orders etc, may exchange codexs with my friend so we can learn more about each others armies.

    After I wrote that last post I looked at my codex again and it turns out Wolf Guards in power armour with Storm Bolters and Power Shields each cost only 2 points less than just upgrading them to terminator armour with Storm Bolter and Storm Shield. So for 2 points I would get 2+ instead of 3+.

    The Storm Shield for terminator armour is 10 points cheaper than it is if they are in power armour and the Storm Bolters are free.

    Model 18 + Storm Bolter 3 + Storm Shield 25 = 46 x 10 = 460

    model 18 + Terminator armour (Comes with Storm Bolter) 15 + Storm Shield = 48 x 10 = 480

    Games Workshop are a pain in the arse, the Wolf Guard Terminators box set doesn't come with a Cyclone Missile Launcher! Ok it have loads of other stuff but it's still missing that, I wouldn't mind some of the wolf tail bits not being there I could get loads of them from other sets.


    The thing with the Skyclaws is that I already have Blood Claws, if I converted them to Skyclaws first I'd need to some how get the back packs off, and then I'd need to buy a pack of Assault Marines and just use the jet packs, it's pretty expensive.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:57 pm

    I was going to go to the city and buy some stuff today but I'm not completely sure what I want my army to be like, at least not the 1,000pt army I'll start with.

    I don't have a tonne of cash at the moment, I can only spend about £100 this month and I want to get the Choas Black spray, the Fang, Fenrisian Grey and Russ Grey I suppose (I'll have to take a look at this months White Dwarf's painting guide. So I can turn and finally master the armour painting for Space Wolves.

    As for models I've been thinking about the Battleforce pack. But while I think I may get it, I might not until next month, it's a little expensive and I don't want the basic Scouts that come with it and while the Drop Pod could be useful I'm not sure that I really want to spend the money on it right now.

    I kind of want to get Canis, but he's £30 and I'd like to be a better painter before trying to paint an awesome model like that. I already have a squad of Thunderwolves Cavalry that my friend bought me as a thank you, and I have a squad of Blood Claws, I also have Ulrik the Slayer, though he needs a back pack and maybe a fresh layer of paint, though I'm worried about doing that as he was the only model I painted that I was proud of.

    I'm thinking to start with I need Long Fangs, Sniper Scouts, Thunderwolves, Grey Hunters, an HQ Canis is one of the cheaper HQ models in the game at 185 points but Njal Stormcaller is more useful, and I think Wolf Guard Terminators were on my list.

    I know you suggested using a Power Fist for the Thunderwolves, the Thunder Hammer looks more fun though. It's more expensive, is there any perk to using a Thunder Hammer over a Power Fist? I've looked in my outdated rule book and I can't see anything, it pretty much just lists it as being the same thing. If there's no difference I may go with a Wolf Claw instead, I know Power Fist's are good but they are a pretty common weapon. My Grey Hunters and Blood Claws will have one.

    Oh right money, getting distracted.

    The Battleforce does have 2 Space Wolf troop sets, one I could use for the Grey Hunters and the other I could use to make correct Long Fangs and Sniper Scouts, so I suppose getting it would make sense even if it is £14 more than I really need to spend at the moment. I'd still need to buy Devastators (Hate that I have to buy them just for parts) and Sniper Scouts which I doubt I could afford this month.

    Not sure how much I'm going to have next month either, I have to pay for my car/road (Whatever it is) tax and it's my friends birthday which means I'll be buying him Imperial Guard stuff, I still have to buy him a Christmas present actually, so two Imperial Guard things. Hmm his Birthday is near the end of next month so maybe I'll just get him stuff when I get paid again.

    Ok so I think I'll get the Battleforce pack tomorrow after all, and the paints. I'm actually thinking about getting the Hobby Set Starter pack but I don't know how many of the paints that come with it I'm actually going to use.

    1 pot of Leadbelcher (12ml)
    1 pot of Macragge Blue (12ml)
    1 pot of Waaagh! Flesh (12ml)
    1 pot of Averland Sunset (12ml)
    1 pot of Bugman's Glow (12ml)
    1 pot of Mephiston Red (12ml)
    1 pot of Mournfang Brown (12ml)
    1 pot of Imperial Primer (12ml)
    1 pot of White Scar (12ml)

    I want the plastic cutters, thin and thick glue I think, not really sure what else.

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

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