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    Warhammer 40k

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    Fenon

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    Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:56 pm

    A friend of mine asked me to play Warhammer 40K with him, it didn't take much to convince me to get into it again.

    I'm going to collect Space Wolves again, because well I've never had a full army of them and I really want Bjorn, always have and I can afford to buy a full army now no problem, I had just left school last time I tried to collect an army. Still got my Blood Claws thank goodness I've already bought 2 packs of them in the past I didn't want to have to make it 3. There are some pretty cool new units like the Thunderwolf Cavalry, I'm going to use them instead of the jet pack guys, though I might pick up a pack of them if I feel their lack.

    My friend is going to collect Imperial Guards, I suppose I'm not too worried about facing them but they do have very good range. I've never faced them before but in the DoW games I don't remember them being very hard. I'm glad he's getting them though, I've always wanted to play as them, just not own them.

    We are also thinking of getting secondary armies, I want that because I've been trying to collect Space Wolves for so long I'm a little sick of wanting them, but I still do want a full Space Wolf army. Anyway I think we are thinking of getting Tyranids and Necrons, I've always wanted to play against Tyranid's and well out of the choices left Necrons are the most interesting (I kind of want Sisters of Battle but they are related to Space Marines and we want the secondary armies to be a bit different from the main ones), we've both wanted Eldar as a secondary army but we are also sick of wanting them, Tau to me don't really fit into the 40k Universe they are too clean and new, they need to be more battle worn. Ork's are pretty cool, I suppose I should consider them more than I have, I like using them in DoW but they were my enemies in the actual game and I'm still a bit anti using them.

    Anyway, I think this will be the last time I try to collect Warhammer stuff, if I don't do it this time I'll give up on trying.
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:14 am

    Be aware, Necrons have a new codex full of the most bullshit bastardiaztion of the existing fluff ever conceived. Not a bad army though.

    Sister of battle aren't really related to marines. They have none of the wargear marines have access to. In return you get some faith related abilities, and a more close range role. They are not all that good nowdays. But they are still interesting in their own way. And look awesome, but none of the range is plastic, heavy costs.

    Imperial Guard are a beastly army. Their firepower is unmatched except by maybe Tau, and they do it at nowhere near the same cost effeciency. The humble guard unit isn't amazing, but they provie cheap access to plasma/melta or heavy weapons if you so wish. And vets do the much the same thing, but at BS4 which is huge. Another common build is to form up into huge 30 man blobs. You can give them furious charge, stubborn and cram a fair few power weapons in there making them a unit to be feared in CC. They also have the most powerful weapon in the game in their book. You'll never see one, but if you ever see a deathstrike fire, the devastion it leaves in it's wake is immensely enjoyable.

    Eldar are fun army. Outdated codex and everything is massively overpriced. But they can be a power house if played right. Every unit is amazing as it's job, but lacks vesatility.

    Thunderwolf cavalry are awesome, but be aware they cannot climb into ruins. A canny opponent can stay out their reach by just staying above the ground floor. A unit of wolf guard with Logan is near as unstoppable as you get.
    Orks are radically unfair. And you need a lot of them.

    Space Marines are bit meh, but do you get Vulkan you gives you an army of twin linked melta and flamer weapons. Fun times.
    Blood Angels are like space marines, but better in every way. Also radically unfair as you can give your entire army feel no pain and furious charge. And you get assault marines as troops. On the charge a full unit of these throws out 30 str 5, init 5 attacks. And in return nothing dies, unless faced with power weapons. And they have the best dreadnoughts.

    Speaking of which, Grey Knights. Massively overpriced glory boys. But everyones got a power weapon. Which is hilarious.

    Tyranids are an army I like immensely. They do have a mobility problem. You can deep strike/outflank a bunch of stuff, and wings on your tyrants. But still have to walk from a to b in most cases.

    None of the armies in DoW really play like the tabletop. I wouldn't guage any army on that, but is a good idea for the asthetic feel of the races.

    <3 40k
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:30 pm

    Are there any places you can go to play? My friend lives quite a way from me their is a city with a Games workshop between us, I don't know if they let you go in and play, are there any kinds of clubs/groups that meet up and play? I know you don't exactly live near me but if you could give me an idea of what I should be looking for I'd be grateful.

    Which armies do you collect?

    My friend is getting quite nervous about facing Space Wolves with Imperial Guards namely, he wants to get the IG's Death Korps of Krieg. The games workshop website doesn't appear to sell them and Forge World does but they are really expensive, more so considering you need to buy a lot of IG. He's thinking of mixing them with Cadian troups I think not sure don't know much about IG. Is it ok to mix like that and is it a good idea? To me it's like mixing Space Wolves with Ultra Marines, which is something I would never do.
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:45 pm

    I only have imperial guard some 4k points I guess. Mostly mechanised. And they get some hate, people have a such a fear of vehicles. Even though they are super easy to avoid and bring down. It's only those cases where they leave squads in the open and they get mowed down that sticks in peoples heads I think. No one remembers the times I get swarmed by dark eldar with their annoying grenades,
    And the dream of blood angels for which I have one whole assault squad. Can't say I like painting red. I do love Blood angels though, even if Grey Knights metaphorically piss over everything in the BA book.

    Death Korps are just regular guardsman. It's worth noting that guard regiments that are depleted to too far below fighting strength, instead of being reinforced, the survivors may find themselves reinforcing a more fight worthy regiment. Which may not be from the same world. So it's not unheard of for regiments to be mixed. Krieg are a forgeworld army. And do look so amazing, and yes you pay for them. They also have their own army list in the Imperial Armour books, but don't have to use it as they are standard guardsman anyway.

    It depends on the gw in question, but most will let you play if a table is free. And they are always open late Thursdays for games to happen. Could be busy though. Finding a club is the best bet. Best way to find one is to find whch area you want to play and find any indepedent stores that sell GW stuff there. More often than not their will be members of some gaming club that will frequent it.
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    DarkShroud

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by DarkShroud on Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:58 pm

    Beware the forge world army.. it looks pretty and kills your bank account lol.

    I can personally vouch for how nasty Necrons and Blood Angels are too. Very Happy The current Wolf codex is pretty awesome too. You'll probably maul your friends guard; once you get up close that is lol.

    I agree with Neo that a club is probably better, but the GW store will have a gaming night where they open late. Might be an idea to try there first and ask about local clubs.

    Sisters only have a temporary White Dwarf codex at the moment which is so-so. I'm expecting a full on nasty codex for them at some point. Be warned though rumour has it 6th edition will be launching later this year so I'd just learn the rules off people and not bother with a rule book. Obviously you'll still need your codex.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:01 am

    I have an old rule book that I bought in the year 2000, it's black with Templars on the front. I'm guessing the basic rules haven't changed much if at all. But my friend and I don't have the rest of the stuff needed like flamer templates.
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:17 am

    http://supermegamatt.blogspot.co.uk/ is my badly written, seldom updated, totally useless blog of 40k.

    Whilst it is true that a new edition is likely to appear this summer, You can pick up the paperback rulebook for super cheap on ebay. And a set of templates are cheap enough. The templates have been in use for ages, they are unlikely to change anytime soon.
    for example http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer40K-Rulebook-Blast-Templates-Dice-and-Guide-/251016571482?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item3a71c0ea5a . Just throw the read me first in the bin.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:51 pm

    Is there a website which has the costs per model, I want to start tallying up what my army is going to be like?
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:10 pm

    Um not really. Can only see whats in each box and see how many boxes you need to make your units. Then shop around to see where you can get it cheaper.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:04 pm

    Oops sorry I mean point values of the individual models like Ragnar is worth 240, the rule book I have says Whirlwind tanks are worth 75 etc.
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:08 pm

    Need to buy the codex. All armies have a codex that has their army list in.

    You won't find a webiste with that info, GW have a draconian legal department that will shutdown almost any site that reproduces their products, including rules etc.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:12 pm

    Figured as much, I'm going to the shop with my friend to buy it in a few weeks, just couldn't wait is all.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:57 pm

    Here's the army I want to build, depending on points, I'm sure it will go over 2,000 but the time you add on war gear etc:

    Loagan Grimnar attached to 5 Wolf Guard Terminators.

    Canis Wolfborn attached to between 3 and 6 Thunderwolf Cavalry with melee weapons.

    (Thats like 1,000 points already)

    Bjorn the Fell-Handed.

    10 Blood Claws.

    10 Grey Hunters.

    5 Long Fangs.

    5 Scouts with sniper rifles.

    1 Whirlwind tank.

    and maybe some Fenrisian Wolves to either be body guards to my HQ units or help the Thunderwolf Cav shock the enemy.

    Wouldn't mind 10 Wolf Guard's, Arjac Rockfist, The Anvil of Fenris, Njal Stormcaller, Ulrik the Slayer, Ragnar Blackmane, Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf.
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:32 am

    made a 1995 list with that model list, only 3 thunderwolves though. note I've never played with or against space wolves, so i have no idea if it's any good,

    Goes something like

    Logan - 275 points
    5 wolf guard - 315 points
    Terminator armour. 2 have dual wolf claws, 3 have Thunderhammer/storm shield. 1 cyclone missile launcher

    Canis wolfborn - 185 points
    3 thunderwolf cavalry - 235 points
    All have storm shields. One has a power fist.

    Bjorn the Fell-Handed - 270 points.

    10 blood claws - 175 points
    1 power fist

    10 Grey hunters - 200 points
    2 plasma gun, 1 power fist, mark of the wulfen

    Long Fangs - 165 points
    2 lascannon, 2 plasma cannon

    5 scouts - 90 points
    sniper rifles

    Whirlwind - 85 points

    total 1995. Long fang weapons are flexible. As are the termintors. Though I recommend Storm shields on anything that can take them.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:22 am

    Thats pretty good, thanks for doing that, I was expecting to have to drop something, 6 thunderwolf cav would have been a little greedy, 3 will do fine. I want them to disturb the enemy line, to flank and cause chaos and to rush in to help units that are losing their fights. Canis will also give them a bigger punch, and hopefully help them survive.

    Blood Claws I've read are maybe not very good, they are weaker than most Space Marines and are as expensive, the have WS3 and BS3 they are also hot headed and will charge if they are close to the enemy if I want them to or not. I can stop them if I add a veteran to their unit but I don't want to spend points on that.

    The Scouts are going to be slightly wasted, I don't want them to attract attention during the fight so I doubt they will shoot often, I want them to be the difference makers, when a unit like Blood Claws are in a fight and either losing or not doing well I want the Scouts to be there to reduce the enemies number and give the Blood Claws or whoever the edge they need to win.

    Grey Hunters are just going to be the meat of the army, my main stay fighting force, more experienced and useful than the Blood Claws.

    Bjorn is one of the best if not the best Dreadnought I was told (That was about 15 years ago), I'll be using him to take down the bigger threats like other dreadnoughts or tanks.

    Terminators are going to be back up troops, they'll go in with the heavier fire power, they'll follow and replace the Blood Claws or Grey Hunters when they fall, and they will also protect Logan.

    Long Fangs and the Whirlwind will give my troops cover while moving, they'll be as far from the enemy as they can be while still able to shoot, hopefully drawing the fire of the enemy away from my main force. I don't really expect them to last long, they are mostly just the opening act to the battle, would love it if they did live though. Facing Imperial Guard with their much better range, and having a slow moving force (I know I could get tanks to move my troops but I firmly expect the Imperial Guard tanks to take out the transports before they even get going) I need something to give my men a chance to cross the field.


    Thats pretty much my reasons for my choices. I think it's a decently varied army that can adjust to different situations. If you see any faults with this let me know, I don't know much about how battles work in this game I'm mostly basing my choices on how armies work in the Total War games.

    Is the Whirlwind any good? I used to think it was but for some reason I'm thinking it might be weak.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:35 am

    I've just got to the part in the rules about armour penetration, so Imperial Guard have pretty much no armour saves against nearly all of Space Marines weapons? I know that Imperial Guard will use cover saves instead, I don't know if armour penetration affect cover saves though or how good cover saves are.

    I'm guessing as well that Space Marines get no cover saves? I suppose cover will only be useful for hiding and staying out of view of long range weapons.
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:47 pm

    Everyone gets cover saves assuming they are in cover. In most cases it's a 4+ save that you get against almost all weapons. Even heavy ordanance that ignores all armour can be saved by cover. It's your best friend and your worst enemy. Is true that the guard don't get armor saves vs just about all guns. But cover is not affected by AP.

    As for the model lists, prob not optimal. But it's fairly solid. You have no transports, so are foot slogging it. Which may or may not be a risk. But if you can make use of cover as you advance, should get most of them across. Thunderwolves and Terminators are your hammers. Especially with Logan. For one turn he can give everyone near him an extra attack, so you want as many models as you can get in his 18" bubble when he does it. These two units will get a shot, a lot. Explsially with plasma guns etc that will ignore armour. It's why you want storm shields. Use the scouts to snipe away at targets of opportunity. Monstrous creatures are best. As the rifles don't care about the enemy toughness. Bjorn will just have to hope he makes it across, he will be attracting every single anti tank weapon. I'd probably take an ordinary venerable dread and with the points saved give it a drop pod. Putting it in the enemies face turn one. Just keep it away from melta guns. Whirlwinds are less than stellar. They are cheap though, and the weapon doesn't need line of sight. Is an amazing weapon vs Tryanids, Orks and any other massed light infantry foolish enough to be caught out of cover.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:08 am

    Yeah I read the vehicle attack rules and was pretty worried about Bjorn. He's my favourite Dreadnought though, I've wanted him forever, he needs to be part of my army. I could get more than 3 Dreadnoughts for the point cost of him though.

    I think I may need to give at least 1 lascannon to my Long Fangs, It's the only weapon that has a good chance to damage the front armour of his tanks and to do that I'll need to roll either 5 then 6 or 6 then 4+.

    I've been wondering what thunder shields do, my thunder cav will have them, do they make sure you always get an armour save? I love Terminators with assault cannon, so I want to get them but I also want terminators with thunder hammers and power claws.
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    Darkstone

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Darkstone on Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:18 pm

    I did`nt really play a lot of 40K but I did play a lot of Space Marine/Titan Legions. Whenever I go into the loft I always look at the boxes and think about getting them down to have a play Smile


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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:06 pm

    Fenon wrote:Yeah I read the vehicle attack rules and was pretty worried about Bjorn. He's my favourite Dreadnought though, I've wanted him forever, he needs to be part of my army. I could get more than 3 Dreadnoughts for the point cost of him though.
    Not quite that expensive. He isn't worth his points though, but it's your choice.

    Fenon wrote:I think I may need to give at least 1 lascannon to my Long Fangs, It's the only weapon that has a good chance to damage the front armour of his tanks and to do that I'll need to roll either 5 then 6 or 6 then 4+.
    I did put lascannons in :p Only Leman Russ have armor 14 on the front in a guard army, everything else is 12. And they are 10 on the rear. It;s why drop pods are such fun. Land behind a tank, auto penetrate with a melta gun. Goodbye battle tank.

    Fenon wrote:I've been wondering what thunder shields do, my thunder cav will have them, do they make sure you always get an armour save? I love Terminators with assault cannon, so I want to get them but I also want terminators with thunder hammers and power claws.
    Storm shields give a 3+ invulnerable. So you always get that 3+ save, no matter what. Power fists aren't worth using when you can get a hammer. Wolf claws let you reroll failed hits or wounds (only one). Thunder hammers double your strength, but you go last in combat. All ignore armor saves. Mix and match at your pleasure.
    Assault cannons are great. I love them. However the cyclone missile launcher is better for various reasons.
    a) Logan has a list of abilities he can give his unit each turn One of these is tank hunters. Effectively giving you two str 9 missiles each turn vs vehicles.
    b) The missile can reliably take out armor, and troops. It's slightly weaker than the cannon at killing infantry. You're not relying on shooting to kill them anyway.
    b) The cyclone is in addition to normal equipment, it's shoulder/back mounted. To get an assault cannon you lose one of your weapons.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:53 pm

    Thanks man I love cyclone terminators, I had at least one when I first started trying to collect 40k.

    I might try getting my codex tomorrow.
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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:58 pm

    Darkstone wrote:I did`nt really play a lot of 40K but I did play a lot of Space Marine/Titan Legions. Whenever I go into the loft I always look at the boxes and think about getting them down to have a play Smile

    Titan Legions, is that Epic?
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    Darkstone

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Darkstone on Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:18 am

    It certainly is.


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    Fenon

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Fenon on Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:38 pm

    Went to the Games Workshop today, uggh the quality of the models seems to have taken a nose dive, Grimnar looked like they took a decent quality model and sneezed poor quality plastic over it.
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    Neo Chade

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

    Post by Neo Chade on Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:57 pm

    It's not plastic, it's resin.

    And for the most part is far superior to metal. Resin holds far more fine detail. It's lighter, glues together easier, doesn't require pinning and is easier to clean up. Easier to paint imo as well, paint adheres better, doesn't chip off as easily.

    Although, and I haven't really experienced this myself, there a few quality issues people seem to like reporting. Air bubbles and miscasts, and the like.

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    Re: Warhammer 40k

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